ESB:Proposals/Use of surname vs. common name

	Proposal Archive The following proposal has been discussed and is now marked as resolved. The page has been protected and now serves as an archive. Do not edit this page. Date Resolved: November 12, 2014 Result: Use common name.

Introduction

As with any content dispute, we need to come to an agreement. See here for the content dispute on the Hall Monitor article. The dispute is also regarding an addition to the ESB:Grammar Guide.

The disputed guideline is as follows:

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• 4. When writing an article, particularly a character article, you should only use a first name once. Instead, use the last name.

• Incorrect: SpongeBob SquarePants went to work. SpongeBob told Eugene H. Krabs, his boss, "Hello."
• Correct:SpongeBob SquarePants went to work. SquarePants told Eugene H. Krabs, his boss, "Hello."

• • One exception is when two or more characters with a last name are mentioned in the article. If this comes up, this is how you handle it:
    • 1. Do not use the character's first or full name for the entire article.
    • 2. Once this occurs, use the first name of the character and then resume using the last name.
  • One exception is headings (particularly in "Relationship" subsections on a character page). Use the full name of the character for this.
  • This rule does not apply to characters that referred to by their full name, like Mermaid Man.

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Now, Wikipedia uses the above guideline, referring to a person by surname, the formal term. There are numerous websites that discuss the usage, in which generally, in formal writings, the surname is used, while in informality, the first name or common name is used.

It should be noted that very few characters on SpongeBob SquarePants have a known surname. Please discuss how we should deal with this. This discussion will end on Thursday, November 6, 2014 at midnight, eastern time. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 03:59, October 30, 2014 (UTC)

This discussion has been extended to Sunday, November 9, 2014 at 11 p.m., eastern time. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 03:15, November 5, 2014 (UTC)

Question

After giving the character's full name in bold at the beginning of the article, how do we address them throughout the article?

Here are the options:

• 1. Refer to character by surname throughout the article if their surname is known.
• 2. Refer to character by the name in which they are most commonly known.
• 3. Add your own option, if there is one.

Discussion

1. Refer to character by surname

• Oppose - This should be for real people, not characters.
   Nicko756 ^{(M•C•E) Sign!}  04:58, October 30, 2014 (UTC) 
• Extremely Strong Oppose - We're not in a grammar school. xD --Spongebob456 ^talk 08:46, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
  • If this is your reasoning, I suggest that you come up with a better reason because even though we are not a grammar school, we should follow the correct grammar.  120d  Talk  Contribs  Rufus 21:50, October 30, 2014 (UTC) 
  • This is Wikia. Not the freaking Webster or Oxford dictionaries. Must we be 100% perfect? I think not! Tan Ham Man 00:37,10/31/2014 

• Oppose - Deathstroke's Apprentice 12:36, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
• Extremely Strong Oppose - This is too odd. It should be just their main name they go by. ZeoSpark  Talk  Contribs  Edits  12:43,10/30/2014 
  • Remember, you are writing about the wiki that basically rewrote its rules for a new guy with "evidence".  120d  Talk  Contribs  Rufus 21:50, October 30, 2014 (UTC) 
• Oppose - in other cases I would support, but given the format and style, use of common name makes more sense. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 12:52, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
• Extremely Strong Oppose - referring characters by surname might make articles harder to follow in some cases, especially in episodes such as Stanley S. SquarePants, where there are 2 SquarePants members, especially those new to the show, or haven't seen the episode, or heard about the episode for the 1st time. --Tominator777 (talk) 21:39, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
  • This is a good point. Maybe their should be an exception to pages like this similar to that of the current exception.  120d  Talk  Contribs  Rufus 21:50, October 30, 2014 (UTC) 
• Extremely Strong Support - -  120d  Talk  Contribs  Rufus 21:50, October 30, 2014 (UTC) 
• Oppose - Per Nicko. Lumoshi (talk) 22:20, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose - It should be for real people, and Bob is right, this isn't grammar school XD   G ^{click here to post stuff}  _{SHUT UP, NURSE!}  23:24, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
• Extremely Strong Opposition - This is beyond moronic. Tan Ham Man 00:36,10/31/2014 
• Oppose - Per Tan. This is completely pointless. DJSponge 23:24, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - Dat Guy (talk) 02:23, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - Joey ^(talk)
• Oppose - I don't know of any other cartoon wiki that uses surnames and the like, and I feel it's pointless that we should start now. ~summer 13:22, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose - This seems pointless and this isn't a school in the 40's. Spike the Dragon (talk) 18:01, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose -  ^{(Talk•Contributions)}

2. Refer to character by most common usage

• Support -  Nicko756 ^{(M•C•E) Sign!}  04:58, October 30, 2014 (UTC) 
• Extremely Strong Support - Uuuh this is the convention. --Spongebob456 ^talk 08:46, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
• Support - while I agree about the proper use as surnames, most characters do not have a known surname, and so for consistency, we should use the most common name by which they are known. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 09:59, October 30, 2014 (UTC)

• Just because people go by one name, does not mean that should be how we use their name in articles. We call Napoleon by his first name, but in an article, he should be called "Bonaparte".  120d  Talk  Contribs  Rufus 22:05, October 30, 2014 (UTC) 

• I do agree, but I feel it would be weird to refer to Patrick as "Star" and Squidward as "Tenticles." Now, this works for Krabs and Plankton (we don't refer to them as Eugene and Sheldon too often). But, for the sake of the average reader, who is typically a fan of the series, we should use the common name. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 03:12, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

• Support - Deathstroke's Apprentice 12:36, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
• Extremely Strong Support - This is better as it's what they are referred to as commonly. ZeoSpark  Talk  Contribs  Edits  12:44,10/30/2014 
  • As I mentioned earlier common name is not what is important in a formal article. You do not use "YOLO" in an article just because it is common place.  120d  Talk  Contribs  Rufus 22:05, October 30, 2014 (UTC) 
• Support - ^{(Talk•Contributions)}
• Extremely Strong Support - common names are easier to follow, and understand, as characters can share the same surname, and it'll make it easier for users, espically ones who never seen the show/episode of the show --Tominator777 (talk) 21:43, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
• Extremely Strong Support - Lumoshi (talk) 22:20, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
• Extremely Strong Oppose -  120d  Talk  Contribs  Rufus 22:05, October 30, 2014 (UTC) 
• Extremly Strong Support - Much better (bones in mouth) Tan Ham Man 00:36,10/31/2014 
• Support - Per Tan. DJSponge 23:24, October 31, 2014 (UTC)
• Strong Support - Dat Guy (talk) 02:23, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
• Support - Joey ^(talk)
• Support - ~summer 13:22, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
• Strong Support - Spike the Dragon (talk) 18:01, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
• Support - Changing it to the other options would be tiresome. Patrick Star (Oh My....) 01:41, November 8, 2014 (UTC)

3. Refer to character by last name, except when more than one character with the same last name is mentioned on the article

A third alternative, compromise would solve the issue with more than one character with the same last name.

• Oppose - Deathstroke's Apprentice 03:24, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - per my comment above regarding consistency. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 03:28, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
• Extremely Strong Oppose - Nah. It will be pretty odd reading something like the SpongeBob SquarePants page and seeing just "SquarePants" in the first paragraph or any others. I mean, the characters mainly go by their first names in the series especially the main characters. The only exception is Plankton but everyone calls him by his last name mainly instead of his first name. It's mainly referring to the character by what everyone else mainly refers to him as. Mr. Krabs doesn't even call Squidward by "Mr. Tentacles", but, instead, "Mr. Squidward". The last name thing just seems odd. What will be used for Gary? "Snail"? ZeoSpark  Talk  Contribs  Edits  03:39,11/5/2014 
  • Actually, the character pages like SpongeBob (ones that have more than one last name) will have the first name. For Gary, we'll just call him "Gary" since it falls in one of the exceptions of using not using last names.  120d  Talk  Contribs  120d 05:11, November 5, 2014 (UTC) 
• Oppose -  Nicko756 ^{(M•C•E) Sign!}  03:56, November 5, 2014 (UTC) 
• Extremely Strong Support -  120d  Talk  Contribs  120d 05:11, November 5, 2014 (UTC) 
• Oppose - despite being slightly better than #1, i still oppose option #3. --Tominator777 (talk) 05:20, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - Joey ^(talk)
• Extremely Strong Oppose - Just no... --Spongebob456 ^talk 07:10, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
• Extremely Strong Oppose - Ha ha no. This is for REAL PEOPLE.   G ^{click here to post stuff}  _{SHUT UP, NURSE!}  12:47, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose -  ^{(Talk•Contributions)}
• Extremely Strong Oppose - per others. Spike the Dragon (talk) 13:51, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - Seriously? Dat Guy (talk) 21:12, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose to the Death - Tan Ham Man 21:27,11/5/2014 
  • There's an oppose to the death? lol XD   G ^{click here to post stuff}  _{SHUT UP, NURSE!}  16:06, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

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