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Proposal Archive

The following proposal has been discussed and is now marked as resolved. The page has been protected and now serves as an archive. Do not edit this page.
Date Resolved: July 25, 2015


Result: Discussion ended. There appears to be no call to change our current policy.


Introduction

Hello all!

As you are aware, our current discussion system uses this system:

Support Support - Oppose Oppose - Neutral Neutral -

This is great for making decisions as it is clear where the support is.

However, is this actually a discussion? Or is it a vote?

We need a way to have a discussion on the wiki without voting for anything. A way of drawing together ideas. Once we've discussed the ideas, a vote can be created.

Proposal

As above, I propose we revamp the discussion system to make it a discussion. That means, no Support Support -, Oppose Oppose -, Neutral Neutral -.

Instead, we just have some discussion to get a feel for what everybody wants. For example, somebody may not support an idea in it's current form but may want to adapt it. Hence a discussion is necessary.

So, what do we think of all this?

Please comment sincerely, and tell me what you think. Too make it ironic, this is going to be a discussion without the supports and opposes. I just want to gather the mood towards this.

Remember this is a discussion so do talk to each other here and reply to comments.

Thanks! :) --Spongebob456 talk 15:07, May 11, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  • Per above. A compromise could be to be to keep the supports and opposes but still keep it as a discussion. They just wouldn't count towards anything - it would just clearly state someone's opinion. Instead of having distinct sections for them, we'd just embed them into the discussion. The MLP wiki has a similar system. What do you think? --Spongebob456 talk 15:07, May 11, 2015 (UTC)
  • One issue I see with this system is it does not give a clear conssessus. Having the templates (support neutral etc) provides an at a glance jugement of the overall conssensus. Also, I believe the current system is easier for new users to use and understand.Perhaps rather than changing the system, we simply change the name "Discussion" to "Voting" or something simmaler.WolfWink L Auron ♫ ♪ Everything is Awesome!!! ♪ ♫ Cyndaquil  02:07,5/12/2015 
  • Oppose Unbelievably strong oppose -There are multiple things about this that make no sense at all... Our discussions here at ESB are votes. That's what they're for. In our votes we give our opinion, and we discuss them. What's the point in having no oppose/support/neutrals? Without those, how do we get a proper consensus? We'd have to read through potentially hundreds of words just to see if people oppose, support, or are neutral, instead of just looking at the template in front of someone's potentially large paragraph. It's flat out stupid. Not only is it a bad idea but I think it's flat out stupid. The point of our "ESB:Discussions" is to vote on something. Do people actually think it's a good idea to take away the voting? What's the point in discussions if we take away the voting?! As I said, stupid. TheGamingSponge 06:02, May 12, 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm not saying replace votes at all. I'm saying we should discuss ideas first, then vote for them. There just seems to be little room for ideas to be changed or discussed. --Spongebob456 talk 06:22, May 12, 2015 (UTC)
    • A majority of users explain their reasons anyway. It also seems that most people don't want to give large explanations. Sometimes there's no need to give large paragraphs of words to describe your opinion. I understand it more now, but I still think it's useless. TheGamingSponge 07:39, May 12, 2015 (UTC)
      • I'm more referring to actually discussing new features rather than just voting. Even if this discussion doesn't pass, I'd like to encourage active discussions rather than voting. I'll use the main page redesign as an example. Instead of just voting for it, it would have been good to have a discussion and think about what we all want on the main page, then move on to create our versions. In the discussion about it, it would've been good to discuss modifications. --Spongebob456 talk 18:27, May 12, 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm not too sure since although I do agree that things should be discussed fully first and that sorta odd percentage voting thing, it will look kinda odd without the templates around. I guess I'm so used to seeing it for years. Meh...I am neutral for now. ZeoSpark  Talk  Contribs  Edits  11:43,5/12/2015 
  • I do disagree with this idea, as the templates been around for a while, and it's a convenient way to know if the person supports or not, also, the chances of raging over an edit conflict would be higher for some users, especially in bigger discussions, since in discussions, the way it works on this wiki, is that it matters whether you support or not. Tominator777 (WallContribs) 21:33, May 12, 2015 (UTC)
  • Per Tom. ~Prez 00:36, May 13, 2015 (UTC)
  • I am not sure. Templates are the main item that was used for voting. Taking them away wouldn't be all too concerning but I do prefer them. Dragonballgtgoku «Talk Page/Contribs» 00:44, May 13, 2015 (UTC)
  • The points given by the opposing users and some of the neutral users is exactly why we need to have compromising discussions. "Majority Rules" is such a bad way of doing things. It is easier, but those who are against the general consensus are unhappy with the result. I understand that we have gotten used to it, but we can change things. We have changed many things on this wiki that people have gotten used to, so what's wrong with changing this? It is a big change. I know that. If I were to come up with an idea, it would be this. Have a vote and then have a discussion and then have a compromise. The vote will tell us if we even need to discuss a topic. If everyone is in favor of something, then there is no reason to discuss it. If the vote tells us that not everyone is in agreement, then we go on to a discussion, where both sides give there argument. Once this is done, we go on to the compromise stage. This stage is where we discuss it again, but instead of giving our ideas, it is more of a debate of ideas until a compromise can be made. It will be slow, I know that, but a discussion really should not be quick. The main problem is that, as several of you have pointed out, the discussions are not discussions at all, but instead votes. They should not be votes. Voting should only be used for contests. We might as well rename them "Votes" because the discussion part of the discussion is not very helpful. It may change a few minds, but in the end majority will still rule and that is not a good thing.  120d  Talk  Contribs  120d 20:11, June 12, 2015 (UTC) 
  • Let me get this straight. Your idea is that, say 95% of users support something and 5% don't support something. We go to discussion to find a compromise? — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 21:22, June 12, 2015 (UTC)
  • Honestly, if one person doesn't like something but the rest do, why should we thwart progress? What if there is no compromise and neither side will back down? — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 22:27, June 12, 2015 (UTC)
  • The thing is that that one person might have a valid reason for disliking it. If not everyone is in favor of something, a compromise can always be made. The sides will have to compromise or the proposed thing won't happen.  120d  Talk  Contribs  120d 22:32, June 12, 2015 (UTC) 
  • Oppose Strong Oppose - Not a good idea. First off, Support Support -, Neutral Neutral -, and Oppose Oppose - gives the idea straight out, so there's no confusion. Second, we've been keeping this like this for a long time. -BronySpongePenguin


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